Redstate

Gilchrist is head of the Minuteman Project, your first link. This, by the way, is the one you erroneously linked to in your diary yesterday. I think that needs to be corrected, the issue is with Chris Simcox's Minutemen Civil Defense Corps (minutemanhq.com).

I simply said that to distinguish between building a fence and telling people they're building a fence.

to see the Minutemen spiraling out of control.  To see a noble cause turn into a shady organization with no accountability is disturbing.  I was one of their early donors (not much, but enough to buy a couple pairs of binoculars) and now I wouldn't send them a cent.

Minutemen shooting one another in the media.  Buchanan attacking Israel and supporting Lebanon. Tancredo blasting fellow conservatives who don't subscribe to his special view of immigration reform.  Wake me when it's over!  The liberals must be having a field day watching all of this.

Do not be fooled. This kerfuffle is not about the Minutemen. It is about a group of people who prey on conservative activists by inserting themselves into causes which are not their own. They siphon off money that people think are going to "the cause," but which in fact disppears into a snow job of forms, reports, and paper corporations. I'm sure that no lawyer could find a thing wrong with it. It's just that the money does not end up where donors thought it would.

This is hardly the first time this has happened. The Minutemen just happen to be the first to have collected such large sums that reporters started nosing around. Now that they have, this would be a good time for those who know where the bodies are buried to come forward.

They do bear some responsibility in this. If this is truly an unrelated group that popped up to siphon cash, they should've done something about it. They have not taken them to court over the name. If Wal-Mart knowingly allowed someone else to use their name to open a bank called Wal-Mart Financial which was nothing more than a pyramid scheme, defrauding investors, they would bear some responsibility (morally, not legally). This just goes to show that this Gilchrist guy is not fit to be dog catcher, much less anything more than that.

I have no sympathy about them getting lumped into the scandel.

They have not taken them to court over the name.

Lawyers and judges all seem to assume that legal activity takes place outside of space-time, in a dimension where meticulous and plodding dispute resolution can occur while the rest of the world pauses to await the result. It also is apparently to occur at zero expense.

Very few of these political-action groups, especially on the conservative side, have two nickels to rub together. To suggest that the Minuteman Project should have filed a lawsuit is to cavalierly dismiss the reality they live in, which does not include 5-figure sums for obtaining justice.

All these millions have now gone to the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps. That would have happened even if the original group had filed suit, because the suit would still be wending its way through the process.

You watch: come November, the MCDC will file its 990, and we'll see that they spent some pittance on border security, and all the rest was burned on SG&A in various "consulting" and "fund raising" firms that the principals all accidentally have a hand in. Will laws have been broken? Absolutely not. Will the donors have been ripped off? Let's just say that they will have gotten very little border security for their money.

And then these same shysters will go do it again on the next cause that people get hot about.

You don't collect donations from people if you can't account for where they go. It is too bad because this can discredit the entire organization, as well as the other organization by the same name. I have no idea why the Minuteman Project let an unrelated entity use their name, but when some of that mud gets on them they have only themselves to blame for it. Until this I didn't even realize there were two separate organizations.

i'd correct it if redstate would let me.  unfortunately you can't amend your post after it's up.

so what is the difference between the two organizations?  i have always heard them only referred to as the Minutemen.  i have always been supportive of them.  now i'm finding out there are actually two organizations.

what is the relationship between the two? do they have the same goal?  what is the difference between the two? why is it i always thought there was just one organization and now they are trying to distance themselves from each other?

I think in the past they have worked together on some things but there has never been any formal relationship between the two. Like much of this debate, the MSM has simply lumped them together because that is the easy thing to do. You get to smear two groups instead of just one.

Gilchrist has issued a statement on this:

http://www.minutemanproject.com/default.asp?contentID=97

They ostensibly share the same goals, but seem to differ somewhat in methodology. MCDC seems to slightly more aggressive than MP. They are the one erecting fencing in AZ.

I realize you can't edit your own posts, I would have edited my comment after rereading it today. I didn't mean to come off so pissy. Apologies

careless with large sums of cash=accountability problem

can't hold the government accountable unless you hold yourself accountable

with Ralph Reed and Jack Abramoff.

can adequately explain where all of their budget goes then I'll worry about the Minutemen.

both the federal government and the Minutemen are careless with large sums of cash. Only the Minutemen are serious about border security.

the point is the minutemen are critical of the government yet appear to be just as bad as the government when it comes to accountability

They are the one erecting fencing in AZ.

This is about money, so let's be precise. The MCDC is the one who says they are erecting fencing in AZ. They'll show you drawings of an Israeli-style 14-foot barrier fence. But the only thing they've built is 2.2 miles of 5-strand barbed wire fencing that might restrain cattle, if they weren't too big. They did this on a cattle ranch, with permission from the owner. Surprise.

The Texas Minutemen are not too happy about this. They have pictures. Is that what you thought you were getting for your money?

I simply said that to distinguish the two organizations.